So last night, as you might have seen, the Gold 25 Man Team took down the Lurker Below! We started the night on a good note quickly taking out Gruul, skipped Magtheridon and went straight to SSC. Trash was cleared quickly with quite a few purples dropping including a Leatherworking and Blacksmithing pattern (never seem to see a tailoring pattern though). We had a few new people in the group, so after a quick explanation, we got set up and took on the Lurker.
He managed to get us the first time through, but we quickly regrouped, and with everyone seeing the fight now, we took him out! My sheep was left alone the whole fight and never broke (yay! for me - boo I'm the only mage). The healing on the individual platforms was amazing as we lost our hunter on our platform on th second dive but we were able to DPS both naga down without any CC on the subsequent dives.
It sure was fun being able to go all out on DPS without worrying about aggro. We completely destroyed the Lurker before his first dive getting him under 65% and I was able to sustain almost 1,100 DPS while sheeping and sitting around waiting for the lurker to emerge. It sure is fun doing over 10% of the total raid damage for a 25 man fight.
On a side note, now that I am a class leader (DPS Casters), I seem to have amassed more addons than I would care to have on the screen. Big Brother was added to monitor my sheeps, but being able to see all pally buffs, consumables, and raid buffs is nice as I can quickly call out if someone needs to be rebuffed or alert people that they don't have food buffs (more on this in another post). I also installed Pally Power to monitor Pally Buffs which is nice because it allows me to quickly whisper a pally if I need a rebuff (i.e. Salvation after clicking it off to tank Krosh). As I am an assist, I can also switch up Pally Buffs as needed (e.g. no Salvation during Lurker fight). I also have Ora2 which litters my screen with tanks and tank targets, cooldowns for locks and druids, and ready checks. Patch 2.4.2 seems to have broken one of my cooldown monitors, but usually that is up as well. Below is a screenshot of my Raid UI while tanking Krosh (and below it fighting Lurker).
After Lurker was defeated, we moved on and cleared trash to the next boss, but had no time to even attempt him. Overall, a very successful night as we have made progress and had a great time doing it. SSC is on notice!
Showing posts with label ssc. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ssc. Show all posts
May 14, 2008
Mar 12, 2008
A Tale of Two Teams
Last night, the Gold Team once again ventured back into Gruul the Dragonkiller's lair and quickly disposed of him. We wiped once on Gruul due to a horrible shatter but quickly took him down the second time through.
For the second time in two weeks, he once again dropped two pairs of Leggings of the Fallen Hero. Again, this time I did not roll for them as we are now using a DKP system called EP/GP. It rewards both effort points (showing up on time, etc.) and gear points (gear that drops). And even though I'd like to have the pants to complete a Tier 4 set, I am not going to roll on them since I would not use them (Spellstrike is significantly better).
But last night, once again, the difference between the two teams I have run 25-man content with was plainly clear. The Gold Team had clear leadership, we had all the classes in their respective channels, and everything seemed to go smoothly. We had a couple new people so the initial Maulgar pull took a couple of chances but we quickly took him out.
This image (Gruul: Week 1) compares two teams on Gruul. The blue on the left is the Ungawa group I previously ran with. The brown on the left is the Gold Team I currently run with. When you look at total DPS, it's clear why Gruul will not die for my old team - DPS. Plain and simple. If we can average 8,104 DPS over a 25 man raid and they get to 6,500 or so, that is a provlem. Another thing you notice is 16 people survived all 100% of the fight and 7 of the remaining 9 lasted 90% of the fight. On the other side, you've got people dorpping off at 50 and 75%. Sure, we had an early death, but we pushed through and destroyed the Gronn. You also see at the top of our list, 2 mages, and 2 hunters. In the Ungawa group, there's 2 hunters at the top and the mages come in at #7 (lasted whole fight) and #10, 11 & 13 (died early - only one was going 600+ DPS).
In this second week's numbers, you can see that our DPS actually increased from 8,100 DPS to over 9,200! Comador completely destroyed Gruul with over 1,000 sustained DPS and I lost a bit of DPS due to more movement (I was only able to DPS 91% of the time compared to 97% the week before). We had 13 people doing over 500 DPS, and 5 people doing 700+ DPS. Ungawa has 9 people doing 500+ DPS (2 died really early) and just 2 people doing 700+ DPS (none doing over 800+).
Now, the point of the post isn't to point out one team being better than the other, but rather to show what dedicated players can accomplish. All too often with the Ungawa raids, I saw people show up without consumables. Not have enchants on their main set of gear. Having green gems in gear instead of blue gems. And just a laissez faire attitude towards raiding. On our side, we are all committed. We are all working to progress both individually and as a group. I really do hope the Ungawa team can continue to make gains, but I was just discouraged with the attitude of the group and they were attempting SSC without being able to down Gruul. We are able to one-shot Gruul on a consistent basis and we're planning on goin to Magtheridon soon. We have yet to step inside SSC. There's a reason you used to have to down Gruul and Magtheridon before going to SSC. There's a purpose behind the madness of Blizzard. Hopefully Ungawa will progress and figure out that attempting SSC without being able to down Gruul or Mag is a fruitless endeavor.
For the second time in two weeks, he once again dropped two pairs of Leggings of the Fallen Hero. Again, this time I did not roll for them as we are now using a DKP system called EP/GP. It rewards both effort points (showing up on time, etc.) and gear points (gear that drops). And even though I'd like to have the pants to complete a Tier 4 set, I am not going to roll on them since I would not use them (Spellstrike is significantly better).
But last night, once again, the difference between the two teams I have run 25-man content with was plainly clear. The Gold Team had clear leadership, we had all the classes in their respective channels, and everything seemed to go smoothly. We had a couple new people so the initial Maulgar pull took a couple of chances but we quickly took him out.
This image (Gruul: Week 1) compares two teams on Gruul. The blue on the left is the Ungawa group I previously ran with. The brown on the left is the Gold Team I currently run with. When you look at total DPS, it's clear why Gruul will not die for my old team - DPS. Plain and simple. If we can average 8,104 DPS over a 25 man raid and they get to 6,500 or so, that is a provlem. Another thing you notice is 16 people survived all 100% of the fight and 7 of the remaining 9 lasted 90% of the fight. On the other side, you've got people dorpping off at 50 and 75%. Sure, we had an early death, but we pushed through and destroyed the Gronn. You also see at the top of our list, 2 mages, and 2 hunters. In the Ungawa group, there's 2 hunters at the top and the mages come in at #7 (lasted whole fight) and #10, 11 & 13 (died early - only one was going 600+ DPS).
In this second week's numbers, you can see that our DPS actually increased from 8,100 DPS to over 9,200! Comador completely destroyed Gruul with over 1,000 sustained DPS and I lost a bit of DPS due to more movement (I was only able to DPS 91% of the time compared to 97% the week before). We had 13 people doing over 500 DPS, and 5 people doing 700+ DPS. Ungawa has 9 people doing 500+ DPS (2 died really early) and just 2 people doing 700+ DPS (none doing over 800+).
Now, the point of the post isn't to point out one team being better than the other, but rather to show what dedicated players can accomplish. All too often with the Ungawa raids, I saw people show up without consumables. Not have enchants on their main set of gear. Having green gems in gear instead of blue gems. And just a laissez faire attitude towards raiding. On our side, we are all committed. We are all working to progress both individually and as a group. I really do hope the Ungawa team can continue to make gains, but I was just discouraged with the attitude of the group and they were attempting SSC without being able to down Gruul. We are able to one-shot Gruul on a consistent basis and we're planning on goin to Magtheridon soon. We have yet to step inside SSC. There's a reason you used to have to down Gruul and Magtheridon before going to SSC. There's a purpose behind the madness of Blizzard. Hopefully Ungawa will progress and figure out that attempting SSC without being able to down Gruul or Mag is a fruitless endeavor.
Here is a locally hosted version of the WowWebStats from last night: here. Here it is on the WWS server: here.
Feb 27, 2008
SSC Week 3
On Sunday, the Ungawa group ventured back into Serpentshrine Cavern and took a few more shots at Hydross the Unstable. We are getting the transitions down and are having more success on the adds that spawn when he transitions. On our second attempt, we did approximately 3 million damage and brought him under 50%, but we got dangerously close to him enraging - though an errant shot by a DPSer on a transition spawned four additional adds and wiped us. On our third try, we managed to do 3.2 million damage and I can tell that progress is being made. We took a vote after that attempt and voted to go on to see Lurker (I really wanted more shots at Hydross at that point since I know progress is happening). After we cleared one platform, we jumped down to Lurker and were assaulted by fish. We then realized you have to clear all the platforms above and the fish will despawn. So we went back the start, cleared all the trash from the start to Hydross, then started clearing the platforms, and after three platforms were cleared, we had to call it due to time.
Though we were unable to drop any bosses, we did see some nice items. The following dropped for us: Serpentshrine Shuriken, Pattern: Boots of Natural Grace (congrats Llyr), and a Nether Vortex.
Looking at the full damage report on the night, I tried to help a couple of the mages out as they were obviously having problems in there. When I looked up their profiles on the Armory, I saw that they had good gear, but just hadn't put that much time into them. There were green gems, items without enchants, and the spell hit rating was quite poor. I advised both of them that all the damage and crit in the world won't help if you can't hit your target in the first place. So hopefully they will heed some of my advice and next time have a better hit rating and put out some more damage.
On a whole, it's quite tough to think that we can progress in Serpentshrine Cavern with the DPS that we have. As I said after our first foray into the Cavern, if we don't have people who genuinely will put the effort forward and buff themselves completely, buy/farm consumables, enchant their gear, socket their gear with rare gems at the very least, and just work to get ready, how are we to progress? I know that we are working with individuals to gear them up and I talked to both the mages in my group about their spell hit rating and also posted about gems and enchants on our forums. But I feel that there are people who really aren't taking this seriously and while we do want to have fun, we should be focused on our damage and/or healing output as well.
Following up our gains in SSC (but still, ultimately nothing died), we continued on to Gruul's on Monday. After a couple quick resets of Maulgar, he went down quite easily and we had three tries on Gruul. Unfortunately, we were once again unable to get him down, coming up about 15% short in two of our three tries (again, the same mage I am trying to help was lowest on DPS - many people discount spell hit rating, but it is the single most important stat for mages on PvE bosses). We're definitely getting closer to getting Gruul down, but again, there were people asking for food, some didn't have their flasks, and the laid back attitude is nice in vent, but when that laid back attitude transfers over to how characters are played, it just causes problems.
With the Gold Team now forming up a 25 man group, I will most likely be departing from Ungawa and I wish them the best of luck. But I really would love to see the 25 mans with my Karazhan/Zul'Aman team. We have fun while raiding and everyone always comes prepared. We have all spent countless hours working on our gear, enchants, sockets, and reading/watching strategies. We function well as a group and I have high hopes.
Though we were unable to drop any bosses, we did see some nice items. The following dropped for us: Serpentshrine Shuriken, Pattern: Boots of Natural Grace (congrats Llyr), and a Nether Vortex.
Looking at the full damage report on the night, I tried to help a couple of the mages out as they were obviously having problems in there. When I looked up their profiles on the Armory, I saw that they had good gear, but just hadn't put that much time into them. There were green gems, items without enchants, and the spell hit rating was quite poor. I advised both of them that all the damage and crit in the world won't help if you can't hit your target in the first place. So hopefully they will heed some of my advice and next time have a better hit rating and put out some more damage.
On a whole, it's quite tough to think that we can progress in Serpentshrine Cavern with the DPS that we have. As I said after our first foray into the Cavern, if we don't have people who genuinely will put the effort forward and buff themselves completely, buy/farm consumables, enchant their gear, socket their gear with rare gems at the very least, and just work to get ready, how are we to progress? I know that we are working with individuals to gear them up and I talked to both the mages in my group about their spell hit rating and also posted about gems and enchants on our forums. But I feel that there are people who really aren't taking this seriously and while we do want to have fun, we should be focused on our damage and/or healing output as well.
Following up our gains in SSC (but still, ultimately nothing died), we continued on to Gruul's on Monday. After a couple quick resets of Maulgar, he went down quite easily and we had three tries on Gruul. Unfortunately, we were once again unable to get him down, coming up about 15% short in two of our three tries (again, the same mage I am trying to help was lowest on DPS - many people discount spell hit rating, but it is the single most important stat for mages on PvE bosses). We're definitely getting closer to getting Gruul down, but again, there were people asking for food, some didn't have their flasks, and the laid back attitude is nice in vent, but when that laid back attitude transfers over to how characters are played, it just causes problems.
With the Gold Team now forming up a 25 man group, I will most likely be departing from Ungawa and I wish them the best of luck. But I really would love to see the 25 mans with my Karazhan/Zul'Aman team. We have fun while raiding and everyone always comes prepared. We have all spent countless hours working on our gear, enchants, sockets, and reading/watching strategies. We function well as a group and I have high hopes.
Feb 15, 2008
Two Free Chests
I had been waiting to post about last Wednesday night since I took some great photos, but I keep forgetting to send them to my journaling location. Anyways, after a 2 week hiatus from Zul'Aman, I was able to rejoin the Gold Team as we went for timed chests and hoped to take down Jan'Alai. We started on time and completely tore through Nalorakk and Akil'zon both with time to spare. We got some cool loot from the timed chests and I walked away with Shadowcaster's Drape. I don't have many haste items, but this is the start of my haste set.
After Nalorakk and Akil'zon, we hurried to Halazzi, but ran out of time. It is rumored that in Karazhan gear, you should be able to get 2 timed chests and it takes Serpentshrine Cavern and Black Temple gear to get 3 timed chests. We will keep pushing it though to see if we can pull it off. I certainly would love to see the Mana Attuned Band from the third chest.
Even though we ran out of time, we quickly one shot Halazzi which gave us a lot of time to learn the Jan'Alai fight. We got in 6 tries (reset him quite a bunch, so it didn't take too long), but ran out of time in the end. However, on our last try, we completely cleared out one side of eggs and about 1/4 of the other side before we lost our tank and had to run out. I am confident that if we can keep our tank up, we can balance the DPS on Jan'Alai and take out the eggs in a timely manner. Next week he should go down. After that, we can begin working on Hex Lord Malacrass who drops the amazingly magnificent Hood of Hexing and sometime after that, take down Zul'Jin and clear the place out.
The thing is, last Wednesday, I genuinely had fun running with our Gold Team. We enjoy ourselves on vent, we have time to joke around - even during timed boss fights - and there's never any loot drama. The only real drama we have is people refusing to take items...Contrast that to last Sunday when I ventured into SSC with 24 other people. We wiped countless times on one boss, took an inordinate amount of time discussing strategies and other minutiae, and it just was too long. And as I go back and re-read my post on that subject, I just wonder how much more I can take in there. I know it takes time and sacrifice to progress, but I personally feel, that until we can take down Gruul and Magtheridon (there's a reason they were pre-requisites for Serpentshrine Cavern attunement), we have no business inside that place. And I'm not willing to waste 5 hours of my Sunday wiping over and over. I will probably give it a few more weeks, but will notify the leaders that they should look for a replacement mage and replace me when possible.
For my future reference, WowWebStats from 2/13 Zul'Aman: http://wowtid.com/wws/wws-20080213-1854
After Nalorakk and Akil'zon, we hurried to Halazzi, but ran out of time. It is rumored that in Karazhan gear, you should be able to get 2 timed chests and it takes Serpentshrine Cavern and Black Temple gear to get 3 timed chests. We will keep pushing it though to see if we can pull it off. I certainly would love to see the Mana Attuned Band from the third chest.
Even though we ran out of time, we quickly one shot Halazzi which gave us a lot of time to learn the Jan'Alai fight. We got in 6 tries (reset him quite a bunch, so it didn't take too long), but ran out of time in the end. However, on our last try, we completely cleared out one side of eggs and about 1/4 of the other side before we lost our tank and had to run out. I am confident that if we can keep our tank up, we can balance the DPS on Jan'Alai and take out the eggs in a timely manner. Next week he should go down. After that, we can begin working on Hex Lord Malacrass who drops the amazingly magnificent Hood of Hexing and sometime after that, take down Zul'Jin and clear the place out.
The thing is, last Wednesday, I genuinely had fun running with our Gold Team. We enjoy ourselves on vent, we have time to joke around - even during timed boss fights - and there's never any loot drama. The only real drama we have is people refusing to take items...Contrast that to last Sunday when I ventured into SSC with 24 other people. We wiped countless times on one boss, took an inordinate amount of time discussing strategies and other minutiae, and it just was too long. And as I go back and re-read my post on that subject, I just wonder how much more I can take in there. I know it takes time and sacrifice to progress, but I personally feel, that until we can take down Gruul and Magtheridon (there's a reason they were pre-requisites for Serpentshrine Cavern attunement), we have no business inside that place. And I'm not willing to waste 5 hours of my Sunday wiping over and over. I will probably give it a few more weeks, but will notify the leaders that they should look for a replacement mage and replace me when possible.
For my future reference, WowWebStats from 2/13 Zul'Aman: http://wowtid.com/wws/wws-20080213-1854
Feb 11, 2008
First Foray into SSC
//CAUTION: WALL OF TEXT
Yesterday was our first official visit to SSC with a set group of people that we plan on raiding with each Sunday. We spent a few hours learning the Hydross fight and while we were unable to get him down, we did learn a bit about the fight. It was the first time seeing SSC for most people in the raid and while we were able to handle the trash without problems, the first boss gave us lots of issues.
Basically, Hydross debuffs everyone in the raid so they take more damage depending on which stage he is in. Every 15 seconds the buff goes from 10% more damage to 25, 50, 100 and 250. So you have about a minute before you need to transition him to his other form. Each time you transition him though, he spawns four elementals. So the key is you need enough DPS to kill the spawns before you need to transition again and spawn four more. Our problem was we were unable to kill the spawns in a timely manner each time. Another problem we had is that when transitioning from one tank to the other, he drops all aggro. So if a DOT goes off or an arrow hits him at the wrong time, you can pull him back causing another transition and with 8 elementals, there is a wipe.
When you first engage Hydross, you have a chance to do maximum DPS as there are no elementals to worry about. During this first phase, the raid should be able to get him to about 80%. However, we were unable to do that. I didn't watch it as closely as I probably should have, but I think our best might have been 85-86%. The problem I have is that I can do a lot of burst damage and I get too close to the tank's threat. This is mitigated with invisibility as I shouldn't reach the tank's threat again through the fight, but that causes downtime as well. Either way, the problem is we couldn't get enough initial DPS on him. DPS will also be an issue later on...
After the first transition, he spawns the elementals and the warlocks are banishing one while the druid tank picks up two and another is tanked by an off-warrior tank. The DPS needs to be coordinated and work on the same elementals one after another. I've also heard that these can be AOE'd down, but I think that might just take a little too much coordination for our group at this time. As elementals went down, I switched to get an occasional fireball off at Hydross as a poorly timed fireball that hits after the elemental is dead would be completely pointless. There was also some time in there where I could get some scorches stacked while an elemental was banished, but usually, after we got the four spawns down, I was unable to do any real DPS as another transition was happening.
So where'd we go wrong? I'm still not sure what exactly was going wrong as we were all brand new to the instance and learning how the fight worked and what our responsibilities were. At first glance, I'd say we didn't have enough DPS. Towards the end of the night, I started logging the fights and I analyzed them with WowWebStats. Here's our third to last attempt. Sustained DPS numbers are off as there's downtime at the start where the tank builds aggro, but you can just see that there's a top tier of DPS and then a huge drop off. I'm 82% present since I did nothing at the start while the tank built aggro. I could have been helping with the initial elementals, but they only have 8k DPS, so if I had used my mana to kill them, I don't think it would have been efficient so I got ready to let loose on Hydross when we were ready.
Going on from there, we had our second to last attempt. Again, you see a top tier and then some dropoff in DPS. I'm again only present for 92% of the time as I'm waiting for the tank to grab aggro rather than working on the small elementals. For the last attempt, I started in on the elementals to try and help out a little this time, but an errant hunter arrow during the transition wiped us. Either way, there wasn't enough DPS being done and not enough coordination during the spawns to really get everything working correctly.
While the saying "practice makes perfect" is true, I feel that there's a point at which you're just banging your head against a wall and nothing is being accomplished. After 4 hours of trying to down him, I'm not sure how much more "practice" people can take. After seeing it 4-5 times, I think that's about as much as you should attempt in one night. Maybe more if you have soulstones and can quickly attempt it again. But after a certain time, you need to call it a night, have people do some homework, and have people work towards the next week.
When it comes to DPS and healing, these are what make or break a raid. DPS and healing not only comes from skill, but also from gear. According to Bosskillers.com, this is what you should expect gear-wise.
The problem here is I don't think we're adequately geared for this instance. If we don't have the DPS to down Gruul, let alone Magtheridon (not even attempted yet), how are we supposed to progress? I've spent thousands of gold on patterns, gems and enchants to ensure that I have the best gear possible and to ensure that I can output the most DPS. I've spent hours reading forums, learning about he mechanics of a mage and even though my talents are cookie-cutter, they do more damage than anyone else.
The problem is, I can't say that everyone else has done the same. I raid in full epic gear except for the Scryer's Bloodgem which I only use on bosses for the +hit. There were people in our raid last night that were in greens and blues. If we are going to be seriously attempting 25 man tier 5 instances, we need to make sure everyone is geared. Bosskillers recommends Karazhan quality gear. This means mostly purples, some blues, and there should not be any greens. Also, it means PVE spec and PVE gear. There's always going to be some PVP gear that just outshines any PVE alternative at this level, but for the most part, if you have resilience, you are wasting stats. Looking through the armory profiles, it appears many people are adequately geared, so it may just be a matter of looking at specs and spell/melee rotations. Also, while you may be wearing purples, if you don't have the necessary +hit or expertise to hit on a consistent basis, you are just wasting damage. Also, a quick browsing of profiles shows people with green gems in sockets and *gasp* EMPTY sockets. That is unacceptable for raiding. Go run 4 dailies and you can buy any blue gem you need. I think this was a last-minute fill in that I saw, but still, how can you be running around with green gems and empty sockets?
Another thing that really upset me while we were waiting to attempt the boss is the lack of self-applied buffs. According to BossKillers, these are the MINIMUM, requirements:
I brought a Flask of Pure Death, multiple Superior Wizard Oil and two full stacks of +spell damage food and even some +30 stamina food in case I needed an HP boost. On top of that, I was also prepared with more +stamina gear in case an encounter called for stamina over +damage. While clicking from person to person, I rarely saw food buffs and even worse, rarely, if ever saw flasks or potions. The reason I brought the flask of pure death is because it persists through death. Had I known we were spending 4+ hours in there, I would have brought two. Either way, for the first two hours of attempts on Hydross, I had my flask. I always had a +spell damage food buff and I always had Wizard Oil applied to my weapon. I was prepared. Most others weren't.
If this is going to be a serious raid, that requires that you spend time grinding for stuff you need. Take the money you get from a day of dailies and buy two flasks. Those will last you 4 hours and persist through death. Buy the food you need or ask someone if they can make it for you. And I believe everyone has oils, stones, or poisons that can be applied to weapons. They should ALWAYS be applied. I also came with 10 mana pots and 10 healing pots, but didn't use many, but if I had needed them, they were there. I also had a stack of bandages I could use in a pinch as well. I was prepared. Most everyone else wasn't. I realize we're more of a casual raid group, but farming these items doesn't take much time. Put the work in and we'll have more success. Don't put the work in and we'll continue to bang our head against a wall for weeks on end.
I guess in the end it just comes down to how serious about this everyone is. Do we really want to progress or are we just in there to have some fun and kill some time? Why should I put in over 100g to two flasks of death when I could just slack off and not use any pots? Why should I put over 700g into my new pair of boots when I could just use a blue? Why spend so much on different sets of helms and pants including the best enchants and best gems available when I could just put cheap enchants and cheap gems in them? Well, yes, I like doing the most damage. And it's not by pure luck that I do so on most raids I attend. It's because I've put the time and effort into making this one character the best he can be. I know my role and I do it to the best of my ability. Sure there's probably areas where I could improve my DPS, but the raid as a whole needs to be improved in my opinion before we can take Hydross down on a consistent basis.
Last night we managed to get him down to the mid 70% range a couple times I think during our best attempts. We we able to get up to 4 or 5 transitions at most before a tank went down or aggro was pulled back across the transition line. It's still a work in progress, but while I would like to share the same optimism of our raid leader, until we are able to take Gruul down on a consistent basis - after all, you just really need pure DPS there and you just really need DPS on Hydross - I'm not sure if we have a chance. I'll be there next Sunday and I'll come prepared, but until we get everyone Kara and Gruul geared, there's a limit as to what the raid can accomplish.
Yesterday was our first official visit to SSC with a set group of people that we plan on raiding with each Sunday. We spent a few hours learning the Hydross fight and while we were unable to get him down, we did learn a bit about the fight. It was the first time seeing SSC for most people in the raid and while we were able to handle the trash without problems, the first boss gave us lots of issues.
Basically, Hydross debuffs everyone in the raid so they take more damage depending on which stage he is in. Every 15 seconds the buff goes from 10% more damage to 25, 50, 100 and 250. So you have about a minute before you need to transition him to his other form. Each time you transition him though, he spawns four elementals. So the key is you need enough DPS to kill the spawns before you need to transition again and spawn four more. Our problem was we were unable to kill the spawns in a timely manner each time. Another problem we had is that when transitioning from one tank to the other, he drops all aggro. So if a DOT goes off or an arrow hits him at the wrong time, you can pull him back causing another transition and with 8 elementals, there is a wipe.
When you first engage Hydross, you have a chance to do maximum DPS as there are no elementals to worry about. During this first phase, the raid should be able to get him to about 80%. However, we were unable to do that. I didn't watch it as closely as I probably should have, but I think our best might have been 85-86%. The problem I have is that I can do a lot of burst damage and I get too close to the tank's threat. This is mitigated with invisibility as I shouldn't reach the tank's threat again through the fight, but that causes downtime as well. Either way, the problem is we couldn't get enough initial DPS on him. DPS will also be an issue later on...
After the first transition, he spawns the elementals and the warlocks are banishing one while the druid tank picks up two and another is tanked by an off-warrior tank. The DPS needs to be coordinated and work on the same elementals one after another. I've also heard that these can be AOE'd down, but I think that might just take a little too much coordination for our group at this time. As elementals went down, I switched to get an occasional fireball off at Hydross as a poorly timed fireball that hits after the elemental is dead would be completely pointless. There was also some time in there where I could get some scorches stacked while an elemental was banished, but usually, after we got the four spawns down, I was unable to do any real DPS as another transition was happening.
So where'd we go wrong? I'm still not sure what exactly was going wrong as we were all brand new to the instance and learning how the fight worked and what our responsibilities were. At first glance, I'd say we didn't have enough DPS. Towards the end of the night, I started logging the fights and I analyzed them with WowWebStats. Here's our third to last attempt. Sustained DPS numbers are off as there's downtime at the start where the tank builds aggro, but you can just see that there's a top tier of DPS and then a huge drop off. I'm 82% present since I did nothing at the start while the tank built aggro. I could have been helping with the initial elementals, but they only have 8k DPS, so if I had used my mana to kill them, I don't think it would have been efficient so I got ready to let loose on Hydross when we were ready.
Going on from there, we had our second to last attempt. Again, you see a top tier and then some dropoff in DPS. I'm again only present for 92% of the time as I'm waiting for the tank to grab aggro rather than working on the small elementals. For the last attempt, I started in on the elementals to try and help out a little this time, but an errant hunter arrow during the transition wiped us. Either way, there wasn't enough DPS being done and not enough coordination during the spawns to really get everything working correctly.
While the saying "practice makes perfect" is true, I feel that there's a point at which you're just banging your head against a wall and nothing is being accomplished. After 4 hours of trying to down him, I'm not sure how much more "practice" people can take. After seeing it 4-5 times, I think that's about as much as you should attempt in one night. Maybe more if you have soulstones and can quickly attempt it again. But after a certain time, you need to call it a night, have people do some homework, and have people work towards the next week.
When it comes to DPS and healing, these are what make or break a raid. DPS and healing not only comes from skill, but also from gear. According to Bosskillers.com, this is what you should expect gear-wise.
Gear must be extremely high quality. Every member should be able to look through their equipment and be able to say to themselves "I only need a few more upgrades from Karazhan or Gruul's lair."
Melee DPS: Karazhan quality weapons, lvl70 blue armor or better
Healers: Mix of Karazhan quality blue/purple armor or better
The problem here is I don't think we're adequately geared for this instance. If we don't have the DPS to down Gruul, let alone Magtheridon (not even attempted yet), how are we supposed to progress? I've spent thousands of gold on patterns, gems and enchants to ensure that I have the best gear possible and to ensure that I can output the most DPS. I've spent hours reading forums, learning about he mechanics of a mage and even though my talents are cookie-cutter, they do more damage than anyone else.
The problem is, I can't say that everyone else has done the same. I raid in full epic gear except for the Scryer's Bloodgem which I only use on bosses for the +hit. There were people in our raid last night that were in greens and blues. If we are going to be seriously attempting 25 man tier 5 instances, we need to make sure everyone is geared. Bosskillers recommends Karazhan quality gear. This means mostly purples, some blues, and there should not be any greens. Also, it means PVE spec and PVE gear. There's always going to be some PVP gear that just outshines any PVE alternative at this level, but for the most part, if you have resilience, you are wasting stats. Looking through the armory profiles, it appears many people are adequately geared, so it may just be a matter of looking at specs and spell/melee rotations. Also, while you may be wearing purples, if you don't have the necessary +hit or expertise to hit on a consistent basis, you are just wasting damage. Also, a quick browsing of profiles shows people with green gems in sockets and *gasp* EMPTY sockets. That is unacceptable for raiding. Go run 4 dailies and you can buy any blue gem you need. I think this was a last-minute fill in that I saw, but still, how can you be running around with green gems and empty sockets?
Another thing that really upset me while we were waiting to attempt the boss is the lack of self-applied buffs. According to BossKillers, these are the MINIMUM, requirements:
Melee DPS use a Flask of Relentless Assault, Fel Strength Elixir, Elixir of Major Agility, Winterfall Firewater, DPS food, and any other damage increasing consumable. Poisons do not work on this fight: bring Adamantite Sharpening Stones.
Ranged DPS use Flask of Firepower, Adept's Elixir, Elixir of Major Fire/Frost/Shadow Power, and any other damage increasing consumable.
Tanks use Flask of Fortification, Defense Potion, Elixir of Mastery, stamina increasing food; anything that will increase HP or mitigation. Note: Stoneshield-type potions are useless because all "melee" damage is elemental (resistance gear check, not armor).
Healers use Flask of Mighty Restoration, Mana Regeneration Potion, Elixir of Healing Power; anything that will increase your healing efficiency or the amount of mana you have.
I brought a Flask of Pure Death, multiple Superior Wizard Oil and two full stacks of +spell damage food and even some +30 stamina food in case I needed an HP boost. On top of that, I was also prepared with more +stamina gear in case an encounter called for stamina over +damage. While clicking from person to person, I rarely saw food buffs and even worse, rarely, if ever saw flasks or potions. The reason I brought the flask of pure death is because it persists through death. Had I known we were spending 4+ hours in there, I would have brought two. Either way, for the first two hours of attempts on Hydross, I had my flask. I always had a +spell damage food buff and I always had Wizard Oil applied to my weapon. I was prepared. Most others weren't.
If this is going to be a serious raid, that requires that you spend time grinding for stuff you need. Take the money you get from a day of dailies and buy two flasks. Those will last you 4 hours and persist through death. Buy the food you need or ask someone if they can make it for you. And I believe everyone has oils, stones, or poisons that can be applied to weapons. They should ALWAYS be applied. I also came with 10 mana pots and 10 healing pots, but didn't use many, but if I had needed them, they were there. I also had a stack of bandages I could use in a pinch as well. I was prepared. Most everyone else wasn't. I realize we're more of a casual raid group, but farming these items doesn't take much time. Put the work in and we'll have more success. Don't put the work in and we'll continue to bang our head against a wall for weeks on end.
I guess in the end it just comes down to how serious about this everyone is. Do we really want to progress or are we just in there to have some fun and kill some time? Why should I put in over 100g to two flasks of death when I could just slack off and not use any pots? Why should I put over 700g into my new pair of boots when I could just use a blue? Why spend so much on different sets of helms and pants including the best enchants and best gems available when I could just put cheap enchants and cheap gems in them? Well, yes, I like doing the most damage. And it's not by pure luck that I do so on most raids I attend. It's because I've put the time and effort into making this one character the best he can be. I know my role and I do it to the best of my ability. Sure there's probably areas where I could improve my DPS, but the raid as a whole needs to be improved in my opinion before we can take Hydross down on a consistent basis.
Last night we managed to get him down to the mid 70% range a couple times I think during our best attempts. We we able to get up to 4 or 5 transitions at most before a tank went down or aggro was pulled back across the transition line. It's still a work in progress, but while I would like to share the same optimism of our raid leader, until we are able to take Gruul down on a consistent basis - after all, you just really need pure DPS there and you just really need DPS on Hydross - I'm not sure if we have a chance. I'll be there next Sunday and I'll come prepared, but until we get everyone Kara and Gruul geared, there's a limit as to what the raid can accomplish.
Feb 5, 2008
JubJub!
((My apologies for the lack of udpates. I've been slammed at work and as such, missed Gruuls, Kara, and Zul'Aman last week and have already missed Gruuls and plan on missing Kara tonight - however, some stuff has happened...))
On Friday night, after taking a week off from raiding, I awoke with the need to set some things on fire. The lovely Amatsuterasu messaged me just as I awoke, requesting my presence as mage tank for High King Maulgar. I obliged since I knew it was the only time during the week I would be free for Gruul's Lair. I quickly donned my stamina set from the bank and received a summons and was ready to go. We had some problems with the initial pull as this new group I was with did things in an odd manner. They used a Paladin to go in and initiate the fight. He would then bubble and I would have to try and grab Krosh off of him. The first time it worked, but my heals were not enough as the only healer on me was having mana issues. After I went down, the attempt was called. The second time through, the pally pull didn't work as planned (I think a hunter jumped the gun) and Krosh was sitting in the middle of everything. I was able to keep aggro and stay alive, but with his fire novas, anyone near him was toast.
The third time through, we got it all down, and Maulgar went down without a problem. Our first attempt at Gruul went quite well as we had some people who had never seen the fight and they needed to just see what happens once to figure it out. Our second time through, we finally took down Gruul. And while he dropped two Leggings of the Fallen Defender (I do not have good luck with Fallen Hero drops), it was nice to see him go down. The only problem is, I couldn't figure out what they did right and what our raid does wrong. I'm thinking it's a pure DPS problem as we have more people who are focused on having fun and gearing the way they want, rather than understanding how their class works and how to maximize their DPS. There's always the same few people at the top of the DPS charts, and there's always the same few people who are contributing far too little. Gearing them up would help I suppose, but if they don't understand how to use their abilities to the maximum benefit of the raid or how to watch for multiple events and avoid certain things, it's tough to progress. Also, if you aren't willing to take the time to learn the fight, and have the add-ons that should be required, how are we expected to be able to progress in a timely manner?
After Gruul's though, we were polled to see if we wanted to continue on that night. So, I was able to see Serpentshrine Cavern! We didn't have the necessary tank gear to take down Hydross, so we skipped ahead to Lurker. For the majority of people in the raid, it was their first time seeing SSC, so we only had time for two shots at Lurker, and we didn't get him down. But I have now seen inside SSC and look forward to going back again.
On a completely unrelated note, though I have been collecting pets in my spare time, including the Spore Bat and my beloved Bananas, I hadn't really been going around and picking up lots of random pets. However, last weekend, I took it upon myself to travel to Netherstorm, Exodar, and all over to obtain as many pets as I could without spending a fortune. As of last night, I had collected 41 of the 73 pets available to me. I have excluded 8 pets as I cannot get EU only pets, Engineer only pets, or the Panda or Zergling as I chose the Diablo. And as much as it hurts to do so, I excluded the Blood Parrot. As I am already at maximum hated reputation with the Bloodsail Buccaneers and I am also revered with three of the Steamwheedle Cartel factions, there is no possible way for me to grind to friendly with the Buccaneers and then back again. If I had known about that option earlier in my career, I would have done that, but it is much too late to do so now.
But back to my pets. Yesterday, the Darkmoon Faire arrived in Terokkar Forest. I hopped over there, turned in the Dense Grinding Stones I had saved up and caught up to Flik as he chased his frog around. I bought a Tree Frog and a Wood Frog. I then made the trip back to the Grim Guzzler, a run I know all too well from grinding Thorium Brotherhood reputation, and bought some Dark Iron Ale Mugs. I threw one at the feet of Morja, her pet Jubjub arrived, and I was able to get a Spawn of Jubjub. In seven days, it will hatch and I'll have my very own Jubjub! However, this weekend, I was not aware that I could get Mojo just by blowing a kiss to someone outside Zul'Aman and now I'm quite upset. It may be a long time before I get to find Mojo inside Zul'Aman itself, but one can only hope.
Tonight, I might continue my search for a Firefly or start questing for a Smoldwerbeb and Worg.
In the realm of recipes, nothing too new to report. I bought a pattern for the Black Belt of Knowledge yesterday. Probably will never craft one, but I'm getting closer to all the recipes...
Today also begins the Lunar Festival in Azeroth. There are no pets to be had, but the important thing are the patterns. One year ago today, I was but a young mage and my tailoring skills were not high enough to earn the patterns. There is both a Festival Suit and a Festival Dress to buy. Oddly enough, these are not soulbound, but I have never seen them on auction...perhaps I will collect extra coins and sell a few of these throughout the year like the Green Winter Clothes pattern I'm saving.
Love is in the Air also begins in a few days and that will be my one chance this year to obtain Peddlefeet...let the grinding commence.
On Friday night, after taking a week off from raiding, I awoke with the need to set some things on fire. The lovely Amatsuterasu messaged me just as I awoke, requesting my presence as mage tank for High King Maulgar. I obliged since I knew it was the only time during the week I would be free for Gruul's Lair. I quickly donned my stamina set from the bank and received a summons and was ready to go. We had some problems with the initial pull as this new group I was with did things in an odd manner. They used a Paladin to go in and initiate the fight. He would then bubble and I would have to try and grab Krosh off of him. The first time it worked, but my heals were not enough as the only healer on me was having mana issues. After I went down, the attempt was called. The second time through, the pally pull didn't work as planned (I think a hunter jumped the gun) and Krosh was sitting in the middle of everything. I was able to keep aggro and stay alive, but with his fire novas, anyone near him was toast.
The third time through, we got it all down, and Maulgar went down without a problem. Our first attempt at Gruul went quite well as we had some people who had never seen the fight and they needed to just see what happens once to figure it out. Our second time through, we finally took down Gruul. And while he dropped two Leggings of the Fallen Defender (I do not have good luck with Fallen Hero drops), it was nice to see him go down. The only problem is, I couldn't figure out what they did right and what our raid does wrong. I'm thinking it's a pure DPS problem as we have more people who are focused on having fun and gearing the way they want, rather than understanding how their class works and how to maximize their DPS. There's always the same few people at the top of the DPS charts, and there's always the same few people who are contributing far too little. Gearing them up would help I suppose, but if they don't understand how to use their abilities to the maximum benefit of the raid or how to watch for multiple events and avoid certain things, it's tough to progress. Also, if you aren't willing to take the time to learn the fight, and have the add-ons that should be required, how are we expected to be able to progress in a timely manner?
After Gruul's though, we were polled to see if we wanted to continue on that night. So, I was able to see Serpentshrine Cavern! We didn't have the necessary tank gear to take down Hydross, so we skipped ahead to Lurker. For the majority of people in the raid, it was their first time seeing SSC, so we only had time for two shots at Lurker, and we didn't get him down. But I have now seen inside SSC and look forward to going back again.
On a completely unrelated note, though I have been collecting pets in my spare time, including the Spore Bat and my beloved Bananas, I hadn't really been going around and picking up lots of random pets. However, last weekend, I took it upon myself to travel to Netherstorm, Exodar, and all over to obtain as many pets as I could without spending a fortune. As of last night, I had collected 41 of the 73 pets available to me. I have excluded 8 pets as I cannot get EU only pets, Engineer only pets, or the Panda or Zergling as I chose the Diablo. And as much as it hurts to do so, I excluded the Blood Parrot. As I am already at maximum hated reputation with the Bloodsail Buccaneers and I am also revered with three of the Steamwheedle Cartel factions, there is no possible way for me to grind to friendly with the Buccaneers and then back again. If I had known about that option earlier in my career, I would have done that, but it is much too late to do so now.
But back to my pets. Yesterday, the Darkmoon Faire arrived in Terokkar Forest. I hopped over there, turned in the Dense Grinding Stones I had saved up and caught up to Flik as he chased his frog around. I bought a Tree Frog and a Wood Frog. I then made the trip back to the Grim Guzzler, a run I know all too well from grinding Thorium Brotherhood reputation, and bought some Dark Iron Ale Mugs. I threw one at the feet of Morja, her pet Jubjub arrived, and I was able to get a Spawn of Jubjub. In seven days, it will hatch and I'll have my very own Jubjub! However, this weekend, I was not aware that I could get Mojo just by blowing a kiss to someone outside Zul'Aman and now I'm quite upset. It may be a long time before I get to find Mojo inside Zul'Aman itself, but one can only hope.
Tonight, I might continue my search for a Firefly or start questing for a Smoldwerbeb and Worg.
In the realm of recipes, nothing too new to report. I bought a pattern for the Black Belt of Knowledge yesterday. Probably will never craft one, but I'm getting closer to all the recipes...
Today also begins the Lunar Festival in Azeroth. There are no pets to be had, but the important thing are the patterns. One year ago today, I was but a young mage and my tailoring skills were not high enough to earn the patterns. There is both a Festival Suit and a Festival Dress to buy. Oddly enough, these are not soulbound, but I have never seen them on auction...perhaps I will collect extra coins and sell a few of these throughout the year like the Green Winter Clothes pattern I'm saving.
Love is in the Air also begins in a few days and that will be my one chance this year to obtain Peddlefeet...let the grinding commence.
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